It’s been one of those absolutely filthy afternoons outside, the heavens just couldn’t decide whether to snow or rain on us; Millie and I trudged through mud and slush, in vain hoping for a doggie friend to appear to lighten the load. So what could be better than coming home to a hot cup of tea, some left-over Christmas biscuits and a pile of poetry books. Sheer bliss.
The above is offered as a not very challenging small stone for the Mindful Writing Challenge which has reminded me to lay something else before you, namely the question of publishing other people’s poetry on a blog. Lots of us do it. Recently two friends, one of whom reads my poetry blog, warned me that I am quite probably in breach of copyright doing so, since when I stopped posting. I love poetry, frequently read it and enjoy introducing new and well-known poets to other bloggers. Have any of you who reproduce poetry on your blogs ever had any officially adverse reaction? Lots of poetry is freely available on the net but what about poetry taken from anthologies or collected works?
I shall start publishing again, in fact, right now. My poetry blog is such a modest affair, hardly read, with very few comments, that I can’t see it causing offence, even if I am breaking copyright laws at times.
Any thoughts on the matter?
I usually post my own (amateur) efforts but would be positively thrilled if someone stole them.
ReplyDeleteNot what you want to hear, I'm sure.
Our filth has gone, probably fled your way :)
XO
WWW
ja het is eigenlijk helemaal overbodig als we elkaars eigendommen respecteren dan is er niets aan de hand.
ReplyDeleteGo for it Friko, i will come and break you out if they put you away!
ReplyDeleteThe weather here has been exatly the same, im glad we did not meet any fellows, we would have been not only wet but covered in mud too if that had happened.
I have been sitting in front of the fire, watching the first episode of 'Selfridges' i thought i would give myself the afternoon off, it was very enjoyable, I shall record the series for such afternoons.
Stay warm. CC
I have some friends I follow who post various poetry on their blogs, ones they enjoy and want to share. I've learned of several that way who would have never come to my attention otherwise. Some I have followed up on and even bought some poetry books because of them. The world is changing so quickly and I cannot imagine someone coming after you for putting up a poem! But then again, I don't know the law. Interesting topic.
ReplyDeleteI can't say with any certainty, but I think if you link back to source and have the name of the poet/book etc.... it should be okay. That's what I do for the internet pictures I use. As someone here mentioned, it should be thrilling, if proper acknowledgement is given.
ReplyDeleteI thought and hoped you'd do small stones.
if you are looking for poetry you are free to post check the gugenheim project...a lot is covered by copyright...and i have had a few friends that were busted for copyright infringement, particularly for pictures
ReplyDeleteIt's called "Fair Use," and though a bit vague, I feel it's entirely legitimate to do so, as I frequently do. It's a matter of informing people and offering proper attribution. I know people who have been introduced to many pots through my post that they would not have become familiar with otherwise and many purchase books of poetry because of it. A new poet, with little or no publication I would not, nor would I want anyone to post my poems that had little or no audience before possible publication, but established poets I feel it an honor to bring them to the public's attention even further and hope you will post poems again. I always loved seeing your selections.
ReplyDeleteI like to share poems that I love next to photos or experiences that come to mind. I always cite the poet, book, and publisher; despite this I'm probably doing something illegal. Yet I think it's a good thing to get good poetry in front of readers. Friko, just after you commented on the following post, guess who showed up? The poet!! Check out her reaction to discovering what I'd done:
ReplyDeletehttp://eddyandreuben.blogspot.com/2011/04/last-day.html
Her comment has given me some confidence.
I thinks Teresa is right, Friko. While I am not offering any legal advice to anyone, I think that publication of single poems or excerpts is permissible under what we in the states call the "fair use doctrine," provided there is appropriate attribution and you have no commercial interest in your publication. If you were using your site to sell or promote a product, and you used someone's creative work (without his or her permission) to attract interest in your site ( and, therefore, in the product), you might have a problem. Personally, I'm comfortable quoting poetry on my site, not only because my blog is not a commercial enterprise, but also because I think it helps draw attention to good poetry. Indeed, it serves to advertise the poet's work, and it may eventually lead the reader to purchase the poet's books.
ReplyDeleteAs long as you don't claim the poetry as your own, and give proper attribution for it, I would consider quoting it to be the same as using a quote in the writing of a term paper, where these same rules apply. But it's definitely a "No-No" to quote it without giving credit to the author. Printing a poem in a blog is similar to -- but very different from -- quoting a poem in a book which is going to be sold, so I would consider the blog site to be a grey area. But I'm not an attorney so I can't really say whether it's a problem or not. If the author is dead, probably not. If the author is still living and writing, it might -- or might not -- be. But most of the writers I know are so desperate to have their stuff read that they'd probably be grateful for the exposure.
ReplyDeleteBut even dead poets have estates. There was a terrible set-to when Eric Whitacre composed a beautiful choral piece using the text of Robert Frost's "Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening". The piece had to be re-written. It's now known as "Sleep". Whitacre wrote a good bit about the situation on his website.
DeleteAmazingly, there still is a version of the original on youtube. You can hear it here .
I agree with Teresa and George. I use poetry of established poets and credit their work. I wouldn't use a poem that hasn't been published unless I contacted the writer and asked permission first. I'm glad you're doing small stones for the Challenge. I had to smile that you wanted a doggy friend of Millie's to "lighten the load" so she could tire herself out and let you go home to tea and biscuits! Good thinking! It's frigid here in Breckenridge - I've stayed inside all day.
ReplyDeleteAloha, Dear. Your 'Sheer Bliss' looks certifiably lovely.
ReplyDeleteIt strikes me that much of the proven and beloved words you share with us, must surely be in the Public Domain by now. Certainly your "good faith" as a non-commercial blogger should count for something. I'd keep away from contemporary artists (or recently deceased) who's oevre is making coin for someone with a lawyer (like a publisher or wife :)
I deeply appreciate ALL that you put up here, Friko. And you know, I wish you always the best.
Aloha from Honolulu-
Please enjoy a Free Download/Peek at my Hawaii Novel!
Aloha Where You Like Go?
I have published a poem with author retribution a few times, but in actuality it is probably subject to copyright unless it is very old.
ReplyDeleteI just found out Aaron Swartz has died (suicide). He was a huge champion of internet sharing, particularly of scholarly documents. In the past couple of years he was harassed by the U.S. government and living under a cloud of possible heavy fines and imprisonment. He was only 26. With his death I feel that something far larger has died. I have noticed, in the same time period, a massive change in internet culture. It involves the fear of sharing pictures and poems on blogs for the noncommercial purposes of advancing the conversation on the arts. I have shared pictures and poems by famous artists (mostly dead ones), and don't have a problem with it. I have also shared poems by contemporary poets with their permission. But I'm not a hero like Swartz and I don't feel like constantly answering to the naysayers. Since I'm mostly interested in sharing my own work, and since there are still so many other people sharing the work of famous artists, I've decided to stop doing it. Not because I'm afraid of a lawsuit, but because the climate of fear sickens me and takes the fun out of it. One of the reasons I started a new blog was to make a fresh start. All pictures and writings on my new blog are, and will be, my own. It's a sad state of affairs. Especially the thought that, if Swartz felt he had more support then maybe he would not have felt so low and persecuted that he had to take his own life.
ReplyDeleteThe issue of fair use law is, in the U.S., open to interpretation (I don't know what the laws are in the UK). Short passages are fine, but the longer they are the bigger the potential for trouble. But I have not been able to determine if the law applies to the use of pictures on blogs.
I agree with you Mark, it's a sad day for all of us, when the lawyers in their Brooks Brothers suits take over the world. Sadly, that day is long past, and we have to live with the consequences. A great post/comment by the way.
DeleteI've never even thought of this. I assumed that as long as a poem is correctly attributed, copyright would not be an issue, much like a quotation in a research paper. I've found a number of new-to-me poets through reading blogs and have gone on to search out books and publications by them.
ReplyDeleteYou still have Christmas biscuits?! I wish I had some left!
ReplyDeleteI would have thought that using exerpts , correctly attributed , was alright . It would depend on the context .
ReplyDeleteSmitonius was once surprised by a student who'd handed in a college paper which included a large section , which she vividly remembered having written herself a few years ago . Oddly , I don't think she found it flattering , so much as exasperatingly stupid !
Hello:
ReplyDeleteWe are not entirely certain what the copyright situation is but would always make sure that any artistic work is properly and fully attributed to its creator. This is their Art and that is only correct to do so. But, we are sure that you are always mindful of this.
The bliss of winter is being able to shelter from the storm in the warm indoors, comforted with interesting things to read and delicious things to eat. Lucky you!
As long as you give credit to the writer and don't claim it as your own I don't think you will have problems. How is this different from writing a letter to a friend and quoting poetry, or even quoting poetry aloud to a friend or in public?
ReplyDeleteif someone has chosen to publish their own poem online and make it accessible to others then unless there is a warning under the poem that it is copyright and you shouldn't reproduce it then i think you're probably safe - ellen is probably also wise to suggest you give credit to the author and dont claim it as your own
ReplyDeleteThis is the same as facebook and is why i don't put pictures of myself online because once its in the public domain its very hard to stop it being reproduced
So what? They'll send you to copyright prison? Is this really something for you to worry about? With all the world's problems, I think authorities have bigger issues to worry about.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is not that I’d be sent to copyright prison. Anyone who owns a copyright can slap a large fine on someone who infringes that copyright. The artist, the artist spouse, widow/widower, or their lawyers.
DeleteHallo Friko,
ReplyDeletewenn ich die Texte von anderen wörtlich in meinem eigenen Text wiedergebe, würde ich dies in Anführungszeichen setzen mit Hinweis darauf, von wem die Textpassage stammt. Oder indirekte Rede mit demselben Hinweis, wer der Autor der Passage ist. Ganze Texte in einem Block zu kopieren, fällt meines Wissens unter das Urheberrecht. Dazu musst Du die Zustimmung des Autos einholen. Du kannst ja einmal in meinen Monatsrückblick Dezember hineinsschauen, dort hatte ich einen Link auf eine Broschüre der Landesanstalt für Medien NRW bereitgestellt. Zu "Die Deutsche Seele": ist toll geschrieben, das sind Begrifflichkeiten, die von A bis Z abgehandelt werden, mit sehr tiefem geisteswissenschaftlichen Wissen, Zitaten und Details. Fängt mit A an wie Abendbrot und hört mit Z auf wie Zerrissenheit. Da könntest Du auch bei Dorn/Wagner studieren, wie sie es mit den Urheberrechten handhaben, da sie viele andere Autoren zitieren.
Gruß Dieter
Not a good thing to do Friko as copyright is a serious thing. Specially if the work is done by a well known writer. Write your own poems and blog them? Why not? I have been caught by owners of photos using them on my blog without permission. I was lucky and was just warned. Of course there may be 'work-arounds'.... - Dave
ReplyDeleteWhen I quote poems I try to give as much bibliographic information as I can--author, book title, publisher, page number--at the end of the post, just as if I were writing a term paper...
ReplyDeleteI read poetry. Can't say I always understand what I've read, however. Funny you wrote this so recently. Today (before I came here) I was searching for works by WWI poets including Rupert Brooks. My professor (history of England) loved his works. Dianne
ReplyDeleteI do on occasion post poems and have had no problems (knock wood - just in case). I always site the poet and a publication if applicable. I think more folks have been introduced to Mary Oliver and Billy Collins, etc. by their poems mentioned on blogs than have ever been before. I know I have been introduced to poets I might not otherwise know due to bloggers (especially Teresa Evangeline). Go for it!
ReplyDeleteI say as long as it is attributed and that if you are asked to remove it, you do, then you are clear. The net has totally boggled copyrights, but I think the main thing is attribution or link to a source, I suppose. Social media rules are pretty bizarre and changing regularly. I doubt you would ever be sued and if the poet is dead...well... If they are living it is probably easy enough to find them and say I would like to use this.... but frankly, I think you're fine with just attribution (and an apology if needed.)
ReplyDeleteHi Friko - just need to be careful ... if we publish our blog - then it becomes a different thing ... but on the blog it's ok as long as attributed - but I steer clear unless it's out of copyright ...
ReplyDeleteI bet you're swamped in snow right now ... sounds really pretty but typical British standstill ...
Looking forward to reading more poetry and being educated with your selections ... cheers Hilary
I love your poetry blog - I read it everytime you put something new there. It has introduced me to some lovely poets. I rarely leave a comment, for you stated on that blog, that you might not have time to read or respond to comments. KEEP THE POETRY BLOG - YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WONDERFUL THERE. Lilly
ReplyDeletep.s. Yes, we do eat seaweed (forms of seaweed) and love it, grew up on it and its free and healthy (for me anyway).
Well I have always posted poems that I love as well as putting some of my own on my blog. I always say who the poet is and give the name of the book it came from when possible. I often publicise their latest books (surely that is appreciated by poets as it is free advertising/promotion? I have been introduced to new poets by other bloggers who do the same and have bought books as a result. I hope you continue to post poems Friko.
ReplyDeleteWell, I have some very small experience with this issue, which I will share.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to published poets, the basic dividing line seems to be commercial/non-commercial. If you're making money off someone's work, it's clearly a no-no to just take it. A couple of years ago, I had an article published in a magazine. It included a snippet from T.S. Eliot. I had to write to the permissions department of Harcourt Brace, the American division of Faber & Faber in order to receive permission to quote from Eliot. I paid a fee - $50, I believe - and received permission to use the material for a period of time. I think it was three years.
On the other hand, Faber & Faber is pretty touchy. One of the reference sites I always used online is gone now. You can see some interesting correspondence here. Then, you can go here and garner some real amusement. Clicking the links can be even more amusing.
I can't guarantee any of those pages will still be there when you arrive, so read them quick. The last time I was there, everything still was up there was no evidence of F&F correspondence. Interesting.
On the other hand, some poets, like Pattiann Rogers, are gracious as can be. I used one of her poems in its entirety in my piece on Mending, but sent it to her, and she loved it.
And of course fair use always is allowed. Definitions vary, but it seems to me that poems used in the context of a blog post are treated far more leniently than poems simply posted. Perhaps the best solution would be to add a few lines of context around the poems you post, and perhaps a formally critical word or two. And always, a link back to a source.
One note - despite what was said above, ANYTHING that is published on the internet is copyrighted. It doesn't require copyright notification. That's one reason that many journals and such who stipulate "not previously published" for their submission process will not accept anything that has been on the web. Published is published, and when we hit that button, our material is copyrighted, and anything we've posted from others needs to be attributed, asked permission for, or used in accordance to fair use guidelines.
I'm constantly battling it with my posts. I can't tell you the number of DMCA (Digital Millenial Copyright Act) takedowns I've initiated.
I really think you're fine. Just stay away from the Robert Frost estate, and don't post any of T.S. Eliot's stuff in its entirety!
On the other hand,