Tuesday, 10 July 2012
Living Like A Grown Up
wisewebwoman, who really is a wise woman - I can vouch for that, having admired her sensible, as well as entertaining, posts for a number of years now - set me pondering with her recent post Living Like A Grownup. What does living like a grownup mean? I would hazard a guess that whether one stays in pyjamas for hours, or all day, isn't really very much to do with it, although in my comment I told her that I always get dressed, invariably, every day, unless I'm sick and have to stay in bed. Equally, I always make my bed, comb my hair, feed the dog, take out the rubbish, cook lunch and wipe my feet on the mat coming in after I've been outside. I also stopped wiping my snotty nose on my sleeve long ago. All very boring, predictable, proper. As an adult, I have the freedom to indulge myself - providing I'm not breaking the law of the land - which is what children envy. "You can watch what you want on TV, why can't I? Why do I always have to go to bed when it gets interesting?"
Being free to do what I want doesn't make me a grownup. So what does? I suppose I could leave aside all the most obvious answers like being responsible for your own laundry, doing your duty by your annoying mother-in-law, eating healthy food, letting your best friend weep on your shoulder when her man dumps her for the third time and not saying "I told you so", and never forgetting anybody's birthday.
I used to pontificate about young people being responsible for their own actions, i.e. not getting away with saying "I didn't know I was doing wrong" when they reached fourteen, but I've mellowed; I now let them get to fourteen-and-a-half before I advocate that the penalty for playing loud music, bunking off from school, ignoring the advice of old ladies like me and uttering unintelligible grunts instead of polite replies, is being taken out and shot at dawn.
I once lived in a long and intimate relationship with a man who never even got to fourteen. No crime he ever committed was his own fault, there was always someone else to blame. If he couldn't shift the blame, he staunchly maintained that the crime was no more than a minor misdemeanour, and I shouldn't make a fuss. And his final excuse, to which I really never had an answer, was "I couldn't help myself, it's who I am". Years of patiently explaining the difference between right and wrong got me a blank stare and a shrug of the shoulders. He was not a Grown Up.
Since then I've never really thought about what could be called living like a grownup. Is it having the courage of my own convictions? Looking after those in my care? Accepting responsibility for my actions? Children can be kind, so kindness is not always a sign of adulthood. Adults can be very unkind, rough and irresponsible. Wisdom is not given to many. Maturity does not always come with age.
The fact that I can sit here and type these rather futile and quite probably unanswerable questions into my computer and send them off into the web and that there are those of you who read them and perhaps think about them for a moment and come up with your own questions, does that make us grownups?
If only it would stop raining and I could go for a long walk; I'm sure I could come up with an answer.
Can You?
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when i think of grown up my first thought is responsiblity as well...at least understanding it...here i try to act more as a kid than a grown up...not the silly way but still trying to see wonder in the world...and have a bit of fun too...
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't think that the questions you typed up are unanswerable, I suppose there is no universal "right" or "wrong" answer here, but everyone has possibly their own version of what being grown up means to them, slightly different from anybody else's.
ReplyDeleteMost will agree, though, that responsibility is a huge part of it. Someone who is not grown up will, for instance, want a certain type of dog simply because some "celebrity" or other has one. A grown up will understand that a dog (or any other pet for that matter) means being responsible for its well-being not just for a little while, but possibly for the next 20 years or so, and that this living being does not have a button where it can be switched off when it is not needed or wanted any longer.
When I was little, the ultimate thing about being a grown up woman for me was to wear shoes with heels that would make the clacking sound on the pavement I so loved to hear when a lady walked by.
Nowadays, I can wear my shoes as clacking as I want them to be, but that does not really make me grown up, does it?
It is rather things such as if I don't buy bread, there won't be any; if I don't clean the place, it will just get dirtier; if I don't do the washing and ironing, I won't have any fresh clothes; if I don't work, I won't be able to pay the mortgage; if I don't go to the doctor's, I can't blame anyone for not getting better.
Et cetera.
Frico, brilliant post! To be adult, what does it mean? who knows? Soon sun will shine in your place, the rain will stop and you will glad as a child.
ReplyDeleteI was going to say something about responsibility, but I see your previous commenters have already done quite well, thank you.
ReplyDeleteI guess I want to add that it's good to protect the child that lies within you, no matter how old you are. The ability to be spontaneous, to ask questions, to enjoy some kind of play; these are things we too often lose. It is difficult to regain them! A quote from Picasso:
"It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child."
I know I always thought of my parents' home as "home" long after I had married and left them behind. It's feeling grown up when there is no "home" with your dear loved ones to welcome you there. That's when I first felt completely grown up: when my mother died and there was no place to go other than where I was. Until then, I was always a bit of a dependent on a parent. And yes, responsibility is only a part of being grown up, but an essential one nevertheless. Thoughtful post, thank you for it.
ReplyDeleteOff the top of my head:
ReplyDelete1. Taking pleasure in the happiness and achievements of others and in enabling other people to be themselves. (If that sounds a bit pompous, I'm not suggesting we don't all need a chunk of "me-time").
2. Listening to other people and trying to think of the effect what we might say might have on others before we say it.
One of my criteria to identify a truly 'grown up' person is sombody who can think ahead and assess the possible outcomes of their actions/words. Another is when someone starts to be less 'me'-orientated and considers the needs of other people. Also, someone who knows when to admit they might just possibly have been wrong, and has the grace to apologise sincerely - and to forgive when the boot is on the other foot! But I suspect most of us are never as perfect in those respects as we'd like to think, are we! I know I can throw a mega temper tantrum when severely provoked (although not as much as I did when much younger - ask BH, as he's only been on the receiving end of a couple in the last 16 years, whereas my mother had to put up with a lot when I was in my teens, and she was fairly fiery, too!!) Perhaps I've grown up a bit, although at times I still feel 17-ish in my head (& I'm a pre-war model!)
ReplyDeleteGreetings to you both.
Thoughtful post. I can relate to what DJan has said. Both of my parents are long gone and it occurred to me shortly after my mother passed that my sister and I were "it." The oldest in our lines. I was still in my thirties then.
ReplyDeleteOf course there's the responsibility factor and the knowledge that we continue to acquire as we age. All this and more.. and yet we can still act immaturely and silly at times. I think that's an essential part of it also.
Provocative thoughts. I do the things you do, but still wipe tears and sweat from my face on the sleeve of my shirt...but only when sitting in my own living room. Not much snot these days as I am getting dried out.
ReplyDeleteMy grandfather always put on a white shirt and his bowtie every day, even after he entered a nursing home at age 92. He also took other folks mail and walked to Mass every morning and then dropped the mail at the Post Office until the last week of his life.
I think it is important to continue to "act as if" we are still alive. Goodness knows, we have plenty of time to lie dormant after we die.
Dianne
Living like a grownup was what I did while working and raising my own children. All that ended when I retired. I no longer have any desire to be grown up; been there, done that. Now I relish my second childhood, which I've dedicated to enjoying my grandchildren and being a constant embarrassment to my children.
ReplyDeleteFourteen and a half you say? You are generous
ReplyDeleteI just adore your thinking and wanderings
wonderful post
...ha. I guess it is being held accountable for our actions... If my child does something wrong, the law comes looking for ME! Loved your words... I think rainy days are good for you :)
ReplyDeleteDespite being now 55, I am juvenile in many ways. I like to think that my thinking is quite grown up. I've learnt to embrace some concepts that I would have laughed at in my younger days, like acceptance and moderation. But my behaviour can still be suspect. Why do I persist in doing capoeira and listening to Christina Perri? I blame the industry I was in (advertising) for this confusion.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about taking the kids out at dawn. In that way, I'm not only grown up, I'm a grumpy old fart.
As for what constitutes "responsibility", that's a whole new post isn't it?
I know so many irresponsible people, some have children, jobs and all the supposed trappings of being a 'grown-up'. It's a personal thing, difficult to define and maybe we don't ever know the true answer, or just before death it dawns on us!
ReplyDeleteI felt grown up when I bought my own home, just me and my son, but not for long.
Recently, being grown-up was accepting that I know more about some things than my parents. I felt really grown-up. Not superior or smug, just comfortable that I'd reached a stage in adulthood you SHOULD reach.
By all means, Friko, don't "grow up," a term that suggest we should all conform eventually with some predetermined standard of behavior. Grow in any direction that suits you—outward, inward, down and deep, around the next corner and into the forest. All that truly matters is that we fully experience the world, learn from our mistakes, and hopefully make a small individual contribution to the evolution of mankind. It's worth remembering that all wisdom traditions emphasize the need to see the world as a child, to always have a beginner's mind. To those who say "grow up," I would simply suggest that we remain open to our own evolution, which may take us far beyond what others might consider to be "grown up." Not up, but onward!
ReplyDeleteBeing responsible, first thought on me mind. Thank you for the inspiration. Please have you all a wonderful Wednesday.
ReplyDeleteNot a poet to whom I often turn...but Wordsworth's Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood give me a guideline for what it is, or should be, to be 'grown up'.
ReplyDeleteFriko, it does seem that you have done it again...posing questions that encourage many responses.
ReplyDeleteHere is mine. I think that grown up folks accept responsibility for their own thoughts and deeds. They can also see situations from viewpoints other than their own. They realize the costs and requirements of reaching adulthood independence and might even generously help others along that same pathway.
And...at the same time can be silly, take chances, remain curious about the future and want to see what comes next.
xo
Maybe being a grown-up means not just going with whatever feeling or state presents itself, but pausing to consider alternatives and attempting to take the optimal course of action.
ReplyDeleteFriko, I missed you. My own fault. I ran across a post by Pondside who mentioned you and your truthful blogs and questions that you raise so I popped over for a visit. Now is that acting grown-up. No I cannot pop over in reality but in my whimsical way I can. I agree with the comment above, whomever made it, I acted grown up for years, working, raising our children doing things at church that no one appreciated and now damn it I am just doing what I damn please. At least I am admitting it. Drop by dear sista.
ReplyDeletePeggy
I think it's the word grown-up or even adult--means nothing more than years lived to me. Like you, I have met kind, considerate, responsible children and selfish, short-sighted, scapegoating 80 year olds. Sadly, most of the time the type of person you are has little to do with how long you've been here. Some people learn all through their lives and some never seem to learn a thing. ;)
ReplyDeleteI just loved this post!! :):)
Thank you Friko for picking up the gauntlet, I've always viewed you as far more 'grown-up' than I. I mean responsible. But being in a relationship means that anyway, that sense of commitment. Of doing one's best. Of compromising which I think is outstandingly grownup. I live alone so feel very much like a child in a lot of ways. I sometimes eat at crazy hours and had to buy a good torch so I could trudge the shore at night when everyone is in bed. I could write on and on. But it is your blog...
ReplyDeleteXO
WWW
Many excellent comments - to which I could add nothing better to the well penned thoughts. I particularly liked the comment about being happy for others achievements.
ReplyDeleteOne could always go out in the rain and dance a la Gene Kelly - and still be a grownup?
For me, being a grownup is nothing more than living in a full-grown body while having to keep my inner little girl in check.
ReplyDeleteA true, worthy essay. Very well done. Fittingly and beautifully "brought home" at end.
ReplyDeleteBrava, Friko. Thanks for reminding me that what wisdom I may have is not an inevitable result of mere years passed, but perhaps an accomplishment, or gift..
Wishing you a pleasantly grown up thoughts &
Aloha from Waikiki
Comfort Spiral
> < } } ( ° >
There are days when I wonder if I'm ever going to be "grown-up." To me, a grown-up is someone who is fully confident in who she is and what her purposes in life are. I see being "grown-up" as different from being an adult. Adulthood is thrust upon us by virtue of age and assumption of responsibility.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Helva about the need for less "me-orientation" in order to be more grown-up. Thinking of others' welfare and responding to need seems to me an indication of self-awareness and other-awareness, both signs of grown-up-ness.
Now I've got something else to ponder.
I do all the grown up things - dress in the daytime, cook, clean, nod and smile when I feel like growling, pick up after myself mentally and physically......but I'm not sure if that makes me really grown up. You've got me thinking (again) and I may have to explore this further.
ReplyDeleteFor me it's a 'sense of being'. I don't think anyone is 'grown up' all of the time. But when we are 'being' grown up it can be exemplified by Harry Truman when he said and meant, "The buck stops here". And so you do your best -- even if you might be wrong or mistaken. The way I see it, no one is called upon to be be grown up all of the time, but a grown up knows when ...
ReplyDeleteInteresting post - I too lived for a long time with a child trapped in an adult males body. It was like being the mother of three only two of them grew up.
ReplyDeleteI think, like many others, being a grown up is taking responsibility for my own actions. I still sometimes make the wrong decision (oh no really?) but I can cope with them and don't make excuses up for myself.
There's some excellent comments in thee and I parfticularly like Kerry's Picasso quote. I think being grown up is knowing when it's ok NOT to be grown up and when you have to face up to your responsibilities.
ReplyDeleteOh - and georgia little pea: I'm in marketing and I TOTALLY agree with you!
*there not thee. It's still early in the morning and I'm not awake yet. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteWe are what we are, and although we may appear to have changed with age, very often it's more a case of same dough, different shape.
ReplyDeleteSuch a good post again, Friko, you are a great teacher, and also very wise comments. Now I am thinking myself. Thank you for this, all your helpers up there!
ReplyDeleteOne who have safely and completely been through puberty and survived. One who takes responsibility for ones' actions. One who can enjoy their own company!!
ReplyDeleteHa!!
Hugs
SueAnn
Edna St Vincent Millay came to mind...
ReplyDeleteGROWN-UP
Was it for this I uttered prayers,
And sobbed and cursed and kicked the stairs,
That now, domestic as a plate,
I should retire at half-past eight?
Interesting post and even more interesting replies. What can I add, except that I used to be a grownup, but now I'm retired and can be a child again!
ReplyDeleteOh, and 3. Being able to survive without being parented. I think one often really begins to "grows up" when one (or more) of your parents die. You realise there is no-one there to tell of your successes (or failures) and that if parental approval was a source of motivation it can be so no longer.
ReplyDeleteI might have to write a post about this myself because all the comments I think about leaving amount to a post-length entry. But I ask this tenuously related question that most of your readers are too young to need to answer. How can one learn to be an old lady? I don't think I have discovered the secret yet. Being a child again, for me, is not the answer, since I was never a really adequate child.
ReplyDeleteTo me, being a grown up means living on your own and not being dependent on anyone.
ReplyDeleteThe physical attributes of being a grown-up (duty, responsibility, trustworthiness, etc.) are easy. Less easy is the emotional maturity not to care what other people think of you, and to follow your heart and do what is best for you, without their approval and when it clashes with their ideas of what and who you should be. To stick the course and not waver then, is a sign of true maturity, I think. BTW - I haven't gotten there yet!
ReplyDeleteAs soon as I find out , I'll let you know . But so far it seems to involve turning up for work every day , flossing daily and and being allowed to choose one's own bed time .
ReplyDeleteOh , yes .... and learning to wait for things .
ReplyDeleteMy mother and I (up to and including the first few years of this century) used to have a private joke involving "what do you want to be when you grow up?" and she always maintained she didn't want to grow up. No matter how much responsibility was thrust upon her by life, she continued to have a silly, fun-loving side. I still miss her.
ReplyDeleteYou have, indeed, given us pause for thought here, Friko. I enjoyed what you had to say, and enjoyed the comments, too. I agree about accepting responsibility, and agree with those who mentioned putting others' needs ahead of our own when necessary; doing one's job, doing it well, and even doing it for no reward but the stipulated stipend even when we might prefer praise.
I have had chronic illnesses for many years, including days when I manage to get up but don't have the strength to dress like a grown-up. I think I might be properly mature if I could accept those days without grumbling at myself.
So...accepting responsibility and accepting one's limitations might sum up my definition, for today, anyway.
All the best to you always,
K
I think you answered your own question best when you detailed the behavior of the fellow who was not a Grown-Up because he never took responsibility for his actions. I've known teens who are adults over some fifty year pluses who may never be.
ReplyDeleteI remember being admonished to "grow-up" when I admitted at age 8 that I believed in fairies and Santa Claus; at 12 when I cried over some prized possession that broke; at 15 when it was my heart that broke; and again at 20 when I got married and at 25 began to regret it. Now at retirement age, I am still being admonished to grow up when I state my political position or question the existence of "The One True God" or weep because the sheep ate all the Brussels Sprouts before I got a chance to.
Your post made me think, it made me chuckle, and it made me wish that there wasn't a big pond between us. You'd make a great next door neighbor!
This is one of the most thought provoking posts I've read in awhile. I even read through nearly all of the comments! Can I give an answer? Not at all. In some ways, I "grew up" at nine, when my mom died suddenly. Yet, I got stuck at nine emotionally for dozens of years afterwards. Yet, I was responsible for my siblings, and their well-being, most of my growing up years. (Fortunately they took over that role eventually!)
ReplyDeleteNow, I think of being grown up as more "adult", as not just being responsible, but also thoughtful decision making. Weighing the consequences, paying attention, thinking ahead, not expecting instant gratification.
This is a topic that will come back and haunt my thoughts, I think. Well written and examined, Friko.
Dear Friko, having visited with three psychiatrists during the years and two counselors, this is a question I've explored many times. Until the last ten years or so, I concluded that I'm wasn't a mature person. Still emotionally immature. Perhaps I was intellectually and physically mature--but I lacked emotional and spiritual maturity.
ReplyDeleteIn the past few years, I've "grown up a little." That is to say I've learned to accept the consequences of my own decisions. And also, I've learned to accept the flaws and foibles within me. I've learned to be gracious to myself. And to me that's a great part of my emotional maturity.
So, I could yammer on here for many words but I'll end by saying that this question is one that has been good for me to explore during all these years of my journey toward wholeness--in this life or another. Peace.
I often tell children that age does not equal adulthood. Paying your own bills, being responsible for your actions and accepting the consequences are signs of maturity. I don't know though. For me I prefer to think of adulthood as wisdom and maturity. Not nec actions. I guess I'm still a child. :) I'm done being a whiny baby though so no worries. It's safe to visit. :)
ReplyDeleteTo me, “living up like a grown-up” is not only to see things from perspectives not to jump to conclusion, to be responsible to what I do, and the likes, but more importantly to know I am not perfect, and therefore to tolerate others’ behaviors as others tolerate me.
ReplyDeleteYoko
Perhaps being grown-up is about understanding that what we do has consequences - but that when we think we're being grown-up, we might not be (somewhere inside we're all fourteen and a half.....)
ReplyDeleteHmmm, grownups realize that all problems are not concrete & remediable by mommy & daddy, they engage in notably strained pleasantries, & many of their dreams have been (somewhat)successfully palliated. Shall I go on? Probably not.~Mary
ReplyDeleteNo answers here. We have a 27-year-old Child-Man and his 23-year-old Brother seems to have made the transition. "It's just the way I am" doesn't do it for me! There are certainly ways adults can approach the world in childlike wonder -- I hope I always can. But in the end, there is a mortgage to pay, deadlines to meet. And I'd better do both!
ReplyDeleteI've had my answer for a few years now, and I must say - I'm a little unnerved at the thought of adding it here because it can sound strange, even to me. But here it is.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me all of life is lived in the tension between our longings and our limits. When we're infants, we're all longing - for food, cuddling, warmth and so on. At the other end of our allotted span, we meet the final, irrevocable limit of death.
In between, childhood is a time of learning to accept the limits life imposes. Old age often is a time of learning how to nourish the longings of our hearts as the limits of life grow ever more pressing.
In that kind of world, being "grownup" is nothing more - or less - than balancing the longings and limits of our lives in such a way that we are content and the world around us isn't harmed. There's a lot of tension in that - but it's a tension that can breed creativity.
I think it's being accountable for myself, and for keeping my commitments. Also, when there's a conflict, being able to see my part and then change whatever is in me that needs changing.
ReplyDeleteHi, Friko. Thank you for the lovely comment and concern about the recent floods in Japan. My region is not affected. Recently, rain falls much more violently. Looks like we humans are paying for something we have done to nature. Keep positive and have happy days ahead no matter how the weather.
ReplyDeleteYoko
Hi Friko .. having just become the eldest in my family .. I guess it's time to take up the sensibility mantle - sad really ... however I have that positive, somewhat irreverent take on life ... I'd love a garden, a glass of vino, a soft chair to relax in for a while ... but life goes on - well I suppose I might be swept out to sea in the rain torrents we're having .. it's all very well raining - but really those clouds need to know when to stop ... keep posting, keep tempting us with thoughts .. and we'll be a cheery bunch of bloggers - cheers Hilary
ReplyDeleteSorry I'm so late to this party. I'm reminded of that great parrothead poet, Jimmy Buffett's take on it... I'm growing older but not up, My metabolic rate is pleasantly stuck.
ReplyDeleteOh, Friko, such profound words from you, and such profound commentary from the others. I have never felt myself to be a "grown up" even though I have been a chronological adult for a long time now. There is an internal resistance, as of a door (to a jail cell perhaps) being permanently closed. Then again, being responsible, and taking responsibility for one's own behavior, are important qualities to me. And yet...my child-who-is-no-longer-a-child has more maturity and wisdom than I will ever possess, and I still have three children at home: two feline, and one who should know better. Sigh...Perhaps it is simply a matter of coming to terms with Life. in the way that Linda describes the tension between "our longings and our limits." We are all aware of our own longings, but we will never know our limits unless we test them.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
Now that you put it out there, I'm not sure myself if I can answer your question. Perhaps it means taking responsibility for ones on life. I think that is mainly what "being grown up" means. In my opinion, none of us can live well totally independent. We were meant to be in relationship with others. When an adult wants others to provide those things that he or she can provide for himself or herself, they are not taking responsibility. If I can dig a hole, but I expect others to do it for me, I am being spoiled and wish to have others take care of me. That to me indicates not being grown up.
ReplyDeleteI've raised five children. It was my responsibility to teach each one to carry his or her own load. At times, they needed assistance. The tricky part is not allowing them to have me carry those things they should be carrying themselves.
Great post.
Such a good and thoughtful post, Friko. Though I'm nearing 70, I don't feel especially grown up. But on reflection, I have to agree that the taking responsibility for one's actions is the biggie. One can certainly retain a child-like sense of wonder and fun though.
ReplyDelete